Curse

Lishy · Jul 10, 2009, 01:03 AM // 01:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esprit

We just had a skill update last month and it was pretty significant too. I think it is quite reasonable that there is no skill update this month.

Just chill and play the game. If you are living from skill balance to skill balance then you need to take a break.

My thoughts exactly.
I feel bad for Linsey. She is probably flooded with a qq storm

Karate Jesus · Jul 10, 2009, 01:06 AM // 01:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kain Fz

My thoughts exactly.
I feel bad for Linsey. She is probably flooded with a qq storm

Tbh, I think Regina is getting the majority of the shit storm (which is weird). But still, I can't say that I blame people for being upset. There was a time when monthly updates weren't such a joke.

Michael805 · Jul 10, 2009, 01:06 AM // 01:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esprit

We just had a skill update last month and it was pretty significant too. I think it is quite reasonable that there is no skill update this month.

Just chill and play the game. If you are living from skill balance to skill balance then you need to take a break.

Living from skill balance to skill balance is really all you can do, considering they can never get all of one thing right in a balance, you must wait for the next (sometimes several) to get something changed in a decent manner.

If they would do the job right, they would have much less of a job to do.

IronSheik · Jul 10, 2009, 01:13 AM // 01:13

They want more time to monitor changes...do they even read the forum they "Use to make changes"

Helix Dreadlock · Jul 10, 2009, 01:16 AM // 01:16

WTF is K-value?

<----Massive PvE'er....lol

Still Number One · Jul 10, 2009, 01:19 AM // 01:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helix Dreadlock

WTF is K-value?

<----Massive PvE'er....lol

The rating gained or lost for each GvG/HB match. The highest you used to be able to get was a +5, now it is a +15.

Esprit · Jul 10, 2009, 01:35 AM // 01:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael805

Living from skill balance to skill balance is really all you can do, considering they can never get all of one thing right in a balance, you must wait for the next (sometimes several) to get something changed in a decent manner.

If they would do the job right, they would have much less of a job to do.

Are you serious? You are NEVER going to please everyone with a skill balance. What may be good for you may be bad for 10 other players. Everyone has a opinion on what is the "correct" version of a skill.

Take the last skill balance which upped Savannah Heat to 15 energy in PvP. I am sure there were a thousand Elementalists who raised a fuss about this and just the same amount of Monks breathing a sigh of relief.

Spouting a phrase like "they can never get a skill balance right" is just a passive aggressive way of complaining and serves no purpose.

Shayne Hawke · Jul 10, 2009, 01:39 AM // 01:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Developer Updates

This month we opted not to make any skill balance changes.

Read "Balance in GW? We're too busy faffing over GW2 right now, call us back in two months, LOL."

Quote:

Since the last skill balance was only a couple of weeks ago,

I wonder whose fault that was?

Quote:

we want to keep monitoring the changes we've already made before we adjust any more skills.

You say that like the only thing worth observing in the game are changes you made one or two months ago. Still deciding the turn the other way on Shadow Form, hm? You might also get enough players to play the game at a high enough caliber to observe real effects from changes if you made your players want to play.

Quote:

However, we have increased the K-value of rated matches in GvG and Hero Battles from 5 to 15.

Read "Champion is the only title left that may show any sign of skill or value in a player, but we pretty much don't care. We want everyone to have an easier shot at getting into Champion range so that we can truly recognize that all titles have become worthless."

Pretty much the only thing good about this update was that we were told that Wintersday in July will be back, and that wasn't even really a part of the update. Plus, we probably won't get ATs for the event, and even if we were, it would be ANet repeating the issue of not telling players about the event in adequate enough time to get into a guild soon enough and play as a member, only as a guest.

FoxBat · Jul 10, 2009, 01:40 AM // 01:40

I'm increasingly less convinced that GvG meta can ever be "balanced." Everyone just copies the mAT winners mindlessly. See: corrupt necros.

Anyway regardless, what this K-Value thing is good for is encouraging the middle of the ladder. Groups that aren't good enough to get anywhere in the monthly only have rating to chase, and chasing rating in the ATs is generally a bad idea because you're so likely to get stomped by a top guild. I don't know if 15 was the right number, but increasing it will help the middle level of competition.

Helix Dreadlock · Jul 10, 2009, 01:44 AM // 01:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Still Number One

The rating gained or lost for each GvG/HB match. The highest you used to be able to get was a +5, now it is a +15.

Thanks.

What significance (sp?) does that have in HB?

Michael805 · Jul 10, 2009, 01:47 AM // 01:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esprit

Are you serious? You are NEVER going to please everyone with a skill balance. What may be good for you may be bad for 10 other players. Everyone has a opinion on what is the "correct" version of a skill.

Take the last skill balance which upped Savannah Heat to 15 energy in PvP. I am sure there were a thousand Elementalists who raised a fuss about this and just the same amount of Monks breathing a sigh of relief.

Spouting a phrase like "they can never get a skill balance right" is just a passive aggressive way of complaining and serves no purpose.

But, you see, PvPers generally have a consensus on a few things that they would like done, which, for whatever reason, never get done. Obviously there are some things that we don't agree on, but there are many that we, as a collective group, do. Therefore, we can be seen as an individual, rather than a bunch of individuals. If our individual changes were put into place, those that would cry would likely be the ones severely handicapped by the update. For example, if bloodspam was toned down, which pretty much everyone agrees it should be, the only ones that would cry would be the champ point farmers... that is, until they found a new build to rely on.

PvE'ers all think they're right about all changes they want in every update, without ever really agreeing on anything. They follow a personal agenda. That's not to say personal agendas don't come into play when it comes to PvP balancing, but the sheer number of informed players filter them out. This is why PvE'ers can be counted as individuals, rather than the collective whole that is the PvP community (or the little bit that is left of it).

So, what is good for "me" is good for the game overall, and in general those who it is not good for, and just sit down in their place and cry, are just bad players that cannot adapt.

]HM[ Sabre Wolf · Jul 10, 2009, 02:08 AM // 02:08

I think part of the skill balence is percieved by others (particularly by PvPers) as "the only changing portion of Guild Wars to make it stay somewhat interesting". So when there is not a skill change, that is a let down, and I can see that arguement. However, since there was just a "major" update (two whole profession changes) I really think it is too early to make a skill change for that reason. Reguardless of the "lateness" that others think... I feel that even if the update was a week prior to when it was released, I still think ANET would not have done an update. So there really isn't anything to QQ about.

UnChosen · Jul 10, 2009, 02:10 AM // 02:10

Good, no dumb PvE nerfs that only serves to ruin pugs and please whiners. Sorry for the PvPers though since they won't get their monthly balance change.

As for the K-value....it'll probably lead to more whining because casuals are by far more likely to use some gimmick or cookie build. Its the same concept as random pugs in PvE barely getting by with some easier to use skills only to be bombarded by continuous QQ about the skills they use and their playing style.

Esprit · Jul 10, 2009, 02:15 AM // 02:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael805

For example, if bloodspam was toned down, which pretty much everyone agrees it should be...

So, what is good for "me" is good for the game overall...

Pretty much everyone? You have heard from tens of thousands of PvPers? Or maybe just from a couple dozen? You have inconsequential proof based on a smattering of opinions shared by the some of the more vociferous players.

When you say what is good for you is good for all, is this 'my way is the best way' mentality I referred to. And you have convinced yourself this 'way' is shared by the majority of the PvP community based on some conversations you have had with your Alliance, seen in Local chat, and maybe read on some forums, which is not even 1% of Guild Wars PvP community.

And to the poster taking Dev comments out of context and making snide comments: Analysis of skills takes time and effort, and with a reduced staff, trying to do an analysis that affects countless aspects of the game, coming up with new balances, new content, and fixing bugs takes time and effort that may in fact take more than a month or two.

Michael805 · Jul 10, 2009, 02:34 AM // 02:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esprit

Pretty much everyone? You have heard from tens of thousands of PvPers? Or maybe just from a couple dozen? You have inconsequential proof based on a smattering of opinions shared by the some of the more vociferous players.

When you say what is good for you is good for all, is this 'my way is the best way' mentality I referred to. And you have convinced yourself this 'way' is shared by the majority of the PvP community based on some conversations you have had with your Alliance, seen in Local chat, and maybe read on some forums, which is not even 1% of Guild Wars PvP community.

And to the poster taking Dev comments out of context and making snide comments: Analysis of skills takes time and effort, and with a reduced staff, trying to do an analysis that affects countless aspects of the game, coming up with new balances, new content, and fixing bugs takes time and effort that may in fact take more than a month or two.

Actually, dozens is about all there is. I don't know where you get the impression that there are thousands.

lutz · Jul 10, 2009, 02:35 AM // 02:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by ]HM[ Sabre Wolf

I think part of the skill balence is percieved by others (particularly by PvPers) as "the only changing portion of Guild Wars to make it stay somewhat interesting". So when there is not a skill change, that is a let down, and I can see that arguement. However, since there was just a "major" update (two whole profession changes) I really think it is too early to make a skill change for that reason. Reguardless of the "lateness" that others think... I feel that even if the update was a week prior to when it was released, I still think ANET would not have done an update. So there really isn't anything to QQ about.

A balanced game shouldn't need skill balances, and new metas should be forming by themselves.

Skills shouldn't need to be changed, but right now, ArenaNet is terrible and decided to not balance their own game.

Quote:

How many people are seriously going to waste 5 tokens to join a tourney filled with ranked 200+ guilds... how is a new guild going to be happy to compeat with that to raise their rating? Granted, the random system is still flawed, but its better then trying to play top guilds when you are just starting out in some AT. Which BTW, you are locked into for a few hours... not very casual to me.

Rank 200+ guilds are just about as terrible as rank 1k+ guilds nowadays. There's really no difference.

By the way, you shouldn't really comment on the reading and writing abilities of others when you can't even spell and form gramatically correct sentences.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esprit

Pretty much everyone? You have heard from tens of thousands of PvPers? Or maybe just from a couple dozen? You have inconsequential proof based on a smattering of opinions shared by the some of the more vociferous players.

The PvP community is unsuprisingly very small, thanks to inadequate attention paid to the most important aspect of the game.

]HM[ Sabre Wolf · Jul 10, 2009, 03:05 AM // 03:05

But how many of your ranked 1500 or 2,000 guilds know that? Even if those 200's are bad, these new guilds still see an AT filled with single digit and double digit guilds even... That would deter a lot of people from playing in them. So raising the K-Value for these guilds in random play does help them in that respect. However, does that make them a better guild and make them better players? The answer ofcoarse is no. But overall, a ladder reset maybe instore to remove some of the dead guilds out of the game. When was the last reset anyway?

And thanks for the cheep shot btw...

HawkofStorms · Jul 10, 2009, 03:12 AM // 03:12

The whole K-value thing... well, unless you've actually studied mathematics or engineering, you won't really understand how it works. It's not exactly a transparent thing. People can explain the effects of it. But chances are only like 2 or 3 people on this thread actually understand the math behind an ELO ranking system.
So, being a PvEer or a PvPer has nothing to do with not understanding it. It's more like XKCD, and hostile to liberal arts majors.

Zzes Tyan · Jul 10, 2009, 03:20 AM // 03:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by ele pl

Wow, thats actualy pretty awesome update.

Why?

Because they didnt break anything.

i think they did... if you lose you get -15 if you win you get ~+2

Still Number One · Jul 10, 2009, 03:35 AM // 03:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zzes Tyan

i think they did... if you lose you get -15 if you win you get ~+2

Answer me this:

What was the rating of the guy you beat and your own rating when you got a +2.

What was the rating of the guy who beat you and your own rating when you received the -15.

I haven't played yet so I don't know if it is broken or if you just don't understand that beating players who have a rating a lot lower than yours gives you little reward and losing to them gives you a massive loss. It's probably broken but no one has been specific in pointing out ratings that I have seen when people complained about this. So be more specific and share the details and we can see if it is broken or not.